Options for moving to * friendly Business VSP

Asterisk Asterisk Support
1

Hi all,

I have a client whose business is currently running on *@home 2.6 with Cablevision’ s (CV) Optimum Voice (OV) and 3 lines. There are going to be 4 additional trunks needed and I’d like to move/migrate them off of OV, to a better more flexible/open/supportive VSP. OV does not share SIP credentials and operates a closed system which required the use of digium tdm-400b card in order to get the trunks into * and limits what we can achieve. There are two parts to this plan. Here are some of the requirements for the first part.

The current 3 lines are setup as a hunt group so there’s only one published number. My client needs to (at least for the time being) retain that phone number and CV does NOT allow number’s in exchange blocks they “own” to be ported out. Due to this fact, I was pondering keeping one of the OV trunks open (the main number from the hunt group), and set it to forward all calls to the new hunt group number on the new VSP.

I’m not sure how something like this would function but my concern would be how the “hand-off” on the forward would behave. For example, can this scenario handle multiple incoming calls simultaneously or would one call be dumped off into OV’s voicemail system? Also, once a call is forwarded to the new number, is the original OV trunk freed up to accept/forward more incoming calls? or is it tied to that call?

Part two.

Another business is merging in, bringing with it 4 lines of their own, one of which is an 800 TF number, all currently configured via Verizon POTS serivce. Ideally, I’d like to get those 4 trunks ported to a VSP also, keeping the TF 800 number and perhaps one of the “normal” phone numbers. The rquirement here is that the LNP be done atomically, without downtime (over a weekend for example). I don’t know whether or not this is possible.

Thanks in advance for any ideas, suggestions and advice you all provide.

2

ah, I feel your pain…

As for the OV number, I’d try porting it anyway. Maybe it will work. Vonage doesn’t allow porting either but it goes through a lot of the time.

As for the call forwarding, that really depends on how OV does it. You are correct in that you can forward the number to a DID from your ITSP, but how many times this will work / how many channels is really up to OV. The only thing I can suggest is try it.

As for the 800# i’m not sure either but I would suggest set it up so both systems will work. That way even if it happens during biz hours nobody will notice.

3

Hi IronHelix,

I tested the “call forward method” I described in the OP and it does NOT work at all. It’s so bad in fact, that CV’s system apparently cannot even handle more than one forwarded-call “opened” at a time.

I forwarded the CV main hunt-group # to a Verizon system voicemail number (obviously because that’s a # that’s able to handle many simultaneous calls and one that could never be busy) and I called my CV #, waited for the Verizon VM prompt, then from another phone, called my CV # and was greeted with a busy signal from CV. So apparently, when CV fwd’s a call, it does NOT release the line/“hand it off” to the final destination. Crappy.

Additionally, time is short. The target date for getting this system (including functioning office phones) in place is Sunday, October 15th. So, this means, the only safe/guaranteed solution is to keep all the CV services (all 3 lines) and all the VZ services (800 # plus 3 normal lines) and simply have them moved to the new location.

To facilitate this I’ll need an Asterisk box that has 8 FXO inputs. I see I could get a tdm2400p and add two 4 port FXO modules and setup on that. Any idea if I could simply get 2 tdm04b’s? As that would be a much cheaper solution.

over the succeeding months, I would put in the port requests for the VZ lines (shouldn’t be any problem there as VZ does do ports) and attempt to put in a port request to CV (which will most likely be denied).

At least I can eliminate VZ and move those to VoIP fairly easily over time. I could go straight to VoIP with the VZ portion of the system if a VZ number port could transpire within 3 or 4 business days, but I don’t think that is realistic or possible. ? Is it?

As far as CV goes if the port request is denied, I’ll just have to open new VoIP lines and going forward have the client give the new business # to all customers, while over time, the old ones will be informed one by one. Then after a while, and as no more calls come into the old CV #, discontinue service with CV.

That’s my plan for now.

Thanks for your input.

4

Ugh, that sucks. FWIW tho the call forward thing doesnt surprise me, that usually is how it works anyway. It’s just crappy that they only allow one channel.
Also FWIW even if they did release info it wouldnt do any good- their system uses PacketCable which is a subset of Docsis. Slightly based on MGCP as I understand it but still probably not something * could understand.

two TDM04b is a much better idea it should work fine. You could also try sangoma A200 if you are short on PCI slots (they use a backplane and only one PCI).

Verizon should be able to forward the 800# with any number of channels for a nominal fee- ask them. Thsi would remove some of your headache- setup a voip provider of some kind, forward the 800# to it, then the only analog stuff you have to deal with is OV. I don’t know if VZ can port in 3 days but htis should get you going until then… setup for forwarding should take a few hours at most.

What you can also do for the OV lines is put them in a different context that plays a message informing customers of the number change before giving them the IVR/ringing people…

5

Good luck with the transition to the new number. In our construction business, we changed to a new number around 1996. We recently got rid of the new number. Lost several potential jobs just recently. At least once a month we hear about someone who thought we went out of business and called someone else.

Apparently these people have never heard of 411, but hey, it was our loss, not theirs.

Of course, we were also screwed over by SBC (now AT&T). Our fax line comes numerically before our voice number. Guess which number is published in the white pages?

You can’t win with these guys, and there is no intelligence on the other end. We’ve tried and tried to get the point across as far as what is our fax versus voice lines. They simply don’t care. They are required to publish a number, and that’s all.

6

Sounds like SBC AT&T in Orange county… we had a client who was moving over a weekend… we placed an order to have his numbers forwarded… lo and behold… the day came when they moved in… and they “mysteriously” lost that order.

Sad thing of it is… we had documentation produced by AT&T that stated the order was placed.

Is it just me or the phone companies turning into some sort of dictatorship with little regard for the little guys.

7

I think alot of that is localized to SBC/ATT. Ma bell is back only this time the CS sucks even worse than the pricing did :frowning:

Verizon here is usually at least decently helpful as long as you aren’t asking for anything exotic…

8

I 2nd that .

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[quote=“IronHelix”]Verizon should be able to forward the 800# with any number of channels for a nominal fee- ask them. Thsi would remove some of your headache- setup a voip provider of some kind, forward the 800# to it, then the only analog stuff you have to deal with is OV.[/quote]Well, it isn’t just the 800# with VZ. There is also at least one (and perhaps more) non-800 #(s) which needs to be preserved, and perhaps setting up a forward on that could be more problemsome.

[quote=“IronHelix”]I don’t know if VZ can port in 3 days but htis should get you going until then… setup for forwarding should take a few hours at most.[/quote]Since I only have until this weekend, I believe I’d like to “play it safe” and simply have VZ move everything over to the new location and just bring the analog VZ lines into * using the two tdm04b cards. I will also open an account with an * friendly Business VoIP provider at the same time with a few trunks. Once everything is up and running, I’ll put in requests to port the VZ numbers over to whatever Business VoIP provider I will open an account with. After that, I’ll request to port the OV # and watch that get shot down. The main priority right now is to get them up and running in time and a smoothly as possible…

[quote=“IronHelix”]What you can also do for the OV lines is put them in a different context that plays a message informing customers of the number change before giving them the IVR/ringing people.[/quote]Wonderful idea, thanks.

[quote=“lacymoore”]Good luck with the transition to the new number. In our construction business, we changed to a new number around 1996. We recently got rid of the new number. Lost several potential jobs just recently. At least once a month we hear about someone who thought we went out of business and called someone else.[/quote]This is precisely the concern my client has. It is for this reason that he must keep his current number, even if it means that I keep his curent AAH 2.2 (* 1.2.1) box running where it is in a closet, and somehow setup the new * box to function along with it, as one “virtual” office PBX. Although, I fear that may not be so trivial.

[quote=“lacymoore”]Of course, we were also screwed over by SBC (now AT&T). Our fax line comes numerically before our voice number. Guess which number is published in the white pages?[/quote]As bad as that is, I don’t think anyone could be worse than CV. Can you imagine, that we “probably will NOT be able to keep our existing phone #, because we may be in a different rate center”. The office is only moving to the next adjacent town, 5 minutes away. Not a different region, state, county, area or zip code. All of these areas are served by CV. They are claiming that it has to do with E911 and if the new area is in a diff rate center, they CANNOT have the new address with the original # in a diff rate center. Sounds like BS to me.

O, and here’s the kicker of all kicker. Even if we capitualte and allow them to issue us a new #, the old number gets disconnected, and there is NO SYSTEM MESSAGE PLAYED TO CALLERS INFORMING THEM THERE IS A NEW NUMBER! A simple disconnect message. Period.

How unprofessional is that!??! This is supposedly a business-class product? Ha!

In any event, I should be getting an SC430 P42.8 1G dual ch., 2x80GB SATA drives to pop in these two tdm cards. The current system is an SC430 config’d as such but with only one tdm04b card and 3 gxp-2000 phones. I just need to order a few more phones and the client wants some cordless functionality as well so I’m looking at the Aastra 480i CT and the regular 480i SIP phones.

Any suggestions anyone may have on Business VoIP providers that might suit my needs, phones, strategies for achieving my goals are of course encouraged and welcomed. :smile:

Thanks again all.
Al

10

this is why I hate non-byod VoIP providers- they often make it quite difficult to migrate away from them :frowning:.

One thing to consider when hiring an ITSP is what kind of ITSP you will get. There are two major choices- ‘lines’ or wholesale.

A provider like Viatalk or Broadvoice sells you lines. Each ‘line’ is a DID (phone number) with usually unlimited outgoing minutes. You usually get two channels (two concurrant calls, so 3way calling works) and your outbound caller id is locked to your DID number (although it can be blocked ala *67). Note that with two channels on BYOD- you can have two useful calls at a time, IE if you are on the phone a 2nd person can make a call. This isn’t a 3way call but it works.

A provider like voicepulse connect (connect.voicepulse.com) is a wholesale provider. They sell you DIDs and minutes separately. You pay a lowish fee for the DID and that gets you unlimited incoming calls. You then PAYG for outgoing minutes, usually 1-2c/min. You can also set your own caller ID for outgoing calls, although there is often a sanity check done on this (so you can’t call from 911). The channel limit is higher or nonexistant. VPConnect for example gives you 4 inbound 4 outbound (8 total) per account and you can buy more if you need them.

Thus you should consider your needs carefully- if you use less than 4000-5000 outbound minutes per month, or you use alot of concurrant calls, or most of your calls are inbound, wholesale is definately a better option.

As for your situation, the forward shouldn’t be a problem, just ask verizon how long it’ll take. If the forward works you can get it going while saving the expense of the extra FXO ports… They can forward many numbers to one destination…

Also the aastra phones rock. Get config files going on your TFTP though, makes things far easier. Also set up your DHCP server to spit out the TFTP server, that way you just set up config files + plug phone in, it will get the TFTP address from DHCP, then upgrade itself if new SW is on your tftp, download the config files, and register. No mucking about on the phone required.

You might also look into WiFi VoIP phones. Linksys and D-Link make a few nice ones…

11

[quote=“IronHelix”]A provider like Viatalk or Broadvoice sells you lines. Each ‘line’ is a DID (phone number) with usually unlimited outgoing minutes. You usually get two channels (two concurrant calls, so 3way calling works) and your outbound caller id is locked to your DID number (although it can be blocked ala *67). [/quote]So each line ordered consists of 2 channels? Where a channel can be either an outgoing or incoming call? Does that mean ordering say 4 lines, would get me 4 individual phone #s, each with its’ outgoing CID locked to its’ own phone #? And does this mean they can’t configure them to hunt either?[quote=“IronHelix”]Note that with two channels on BYOD- you can have two useful calls at a time, IE if you are on the phone a 2nd person can make a call. This isn’t a 3way call but it works.[/quote]The 3way could be emulated in Asterisk anyway I believe (via conference utilizing both channels).[quote=“IronHelix”]A provider like voicepulse connect (connect.voicepulse.com) is a wholesale provider. They sell you DIDs and minutes separately. You pay a lowish fee for the DID and that gets you unlimited incoming calls. You then PAYG for outgoing minutes, usually 1-2c/min. You can also set your own caller ID for outgoing calls, although there is often a sanity check done on this (so you can’t call from 911). The channel limit is higher or nonexistant. VPConnect for example gives you 4 inbound 4 outbound (8 total) per account and you can buy more if you need them.[/quote]In this scenario, there’s no concept, nor is there a need for “hunting”, is there. Since incoming callers would be placed on any open channel (trunk?) correct?

I have to determine how many minutes are being used out/inbound.
Any idea how useful any of these ITSP’s are wrt faxing? As that is something I’m considering intergrating into *. Also, do any of these ITSP’s handle the 800 TF number?

[quote=“IronHelix”]As for your situation, the forward shouldn’t be a problem, just ask verizon how long it’ll take. If the forward works you can get it going while saving the expense of the extra FXO ports… They can forward many numbers to one destination…[/quote]I’m just doing a move for now, to keep things as “problem-free” as possible. It turned out that CV can allow us to keep out existing #'s (loe and behold), but VZ (to my surprise) cannot. So, what’s happening (for VZ that is) is that they are opening a new set of #'s, in a hunt-group (the 800 # of course is no prob to keep, and have it repointed to the new #), and we will get 4 “paths”/channels opened which will be used to forward callers of the old # to the new main # of the hunt-group. Same will happen with the dedicated fax #.

This will unfortunately end up costing us more in recurring monthly fees for the time being, but it should reduce any hurdles we have to get over right now. My concern would be later on, when I attempt to port away from VZ, since the original hunt # (and fax # too) is being disconnected “officially”, but “kept open” in the CO/system (for the forward paths), do I still “own” the orignal # and do I have the ability to port it. We are required to pay for the paths from the old # monthly so I hope that == owning that #.[quote=“IronHelix”]Also the aastra phones rock. Get config files going on your TFTP though, makes things far easier. Also set up your DHCP server to spit out the TFTP server, that way you just set up config files + plug phone in, it will get the TFTP address from DHCP, then upgrade itself if new SW is on your tftp, download the config files, and register. No mucking about on the phone required.[/quote]2 x 480i CT + 2 x 9133i on their way with the 2 x tdm04b and the SC430. Should be interesting, loading up the latest CentOS on sw RAID across the 2 80 GB SATA’s and the lastest Asterisk build. Hopefully all the hw comes and leaves enough time to roll this out by Saturday.

Al

12

ordering lines- each ordered line gives you two channels which can each be in/out. Most providers allow hunt group, just have the lines forward to each other. You will get 4 phone numbers, and 2 channels will be locked to each number. You can still hunt for incoming though.

3way = asterisk+meetme or an IP phone with a CONF button.

with a wholesale provider correct no hunting is required as it’s just a trunk.

Faxing is something that may or may not work depending on your provider and your fax machine. The best way to do it is using T.38 but most providers dont support that yet. Asterisk as of 1.4 will correctly pass it thru but otherwise won’t deal with it.

Doesnt surprise me that CV is better at keeping the # than verizon. you are correct that 4 lines in a hunt group with a 800# sent to the first one is a 4 channel config… that will work fine.
It will also cost you more in hardware as you need more FXO ports :frowning:

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

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[quote=“IronHelix”]Faxing is something that may or may not work depending on your provider and your fax machine… Asterisk as of 1.4 will correctly pass it thru but otherwise won’t deal with it.[/quote]I was under the impression that Asterisk could handle a fax, and email a pdf image someplace. Interesting… Well, I suppose a pass-through could work just as welll with a regular fax machine connected at the end.[quote=“IronHelix”]…you are correct that 4 lines in a hunt group with a 800# sent to the first one is a 4 channel config… that will work fine.
It will also cost you more in hardware as you need more FXO ports :frowning:[/quote]Well, actually the reason for 4 “paths” from the orig # when there are only 3 lines in the hunt-group (the 4th line, the fax line, isn’t part of the hunt), is because in the new configuration, if all three #'s in the group are busy, the next caller inbound would be forwarded to a VZ VMB (a “catch-all”).

The 800 # simply points wherever it needs to be pointed to, and is not itself, a line/trunk. Therefore, it will just be re-pointed to the new main # of the new hunt -group.

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yes Asterisk can handle that too. I just meant that faxing over VoIP in general is not 100% reliable. It requires testing- if it doesnt work 99% of the time consider keeping a vz line around for fax.